tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202612634352350608.post108323714865203515..comments2024-03-26T02:03:33.336-07:00Comments on Mazirian's Garden: Pleasures of the OSR: Overcoming ChallengesBen L.http://www.blogger.com/profile/04568198881628052274noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202612634352350608.post-41064726844589541812020-06-18T08:32:10.588-07:002020-06-18T08:32:10.588-07:00Yes, I would definitely include mothership, for ex...Yes, I would definitely include mothership, for exactly that reason! Here's anothe reason: it seems built to be usable with open world sandbox style play. For example, A Pound of Flesh is pretty clearly a sandbox setting, or component of a sandbox setting. (Also, the lack of any narrative control rules suggests an emergent story rather than collaborative storytelling focus.)Ben L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04568198881628052274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202612634352350608.post-54953787994658641822020-06-18T08:19:15.234-07:002020-06-18T08:19:15.234-07:00This really helps solidify why Mothership is often...This really helps solidify why Mothership is often referred to as an OSR game, or at least OSR-adjacent: while it's not B/X-derived (what so many people seem to think OSR means), it embraces the same type of challenge and playstyle. Kyle Maxwellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02028811120307956640noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202612634352350608.post-64438591954690603352020-06-12T10:24:25.988-07:002020-06-12T10:24:25.988-07:00Here's an exchange from a twitter conversation...Here's an exchange from a twitter conversation I wanted to record here. @necropraxis made the following insightful comment: "I wonder if it is appropriate to include Trophy Dark as an example of challenge oriented play. For sure improv is challenging, but if the game provided the same aesthetic payload with reduced effort, wouldn’t that be considered a design success?"<br /><br />To which I replied:<br />"Good point! I agree that it would probably be a design success if changing the rules made it easier for everyone to succeed at satisfying collaborative storytelling in a game like Trophy Dark. So the challenge isn’t *the point* in the same way. I think the use of my example is misleading in that way. But there is some truth to it; I feel that given that collaborative storytelling is intrinsically challenging that’s got to be part of the fun of a game like Trophy Dark. The feeling, “Wow, I really got into that. I contributed something cool.” Or “We really made a thing happen there.”Ben L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04568198881628052274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202612634352350608.post-71987518670868463652020-06-12T10:21:26.484-07:002020-06-12T10:21:26.484-07:00Those are good points. I agree with you! And often...Those are good points. I agree with you! And often the partial success can be a negotiated failure, like if I said as the DM: "you can get the door open quietly if you make the open doors check, but if you botch it, you force it noisily." And you're right of course, that the give and take of combat often results in "partial successes" too through rolling. Even the combination of dice rolls from a single attack can be a bit like that: I hit the opponent with the d20 but then roll a 2 for damage, leaving the opponent injured but standing, and myself open to their counter-attack. (Also, it's worth saying that there's nothing built in to this style of play about not having mixed successes, as the reaction roll already shows. I was here more remarking on why you didn't need to have mixed successes on dice rolls in order to move things along or make them interesting in this style of play, because often the series of accepting a yes-no gamble is interesting enough.) Ben L.https://www.blogger.com/profile/04568198881628052274noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202612634352350608.post-50461901431024128362020-06-12T10:09:51.671-07:002020-06-12T10:09:51.671-07:00Another great article. One thing that I think is ...Another great article. One thing that I think is worth pointing out to people who don't "get" the OSR is that the challenge-based pleasure of it is quite similar to playing sports or competitive board games– you have opponents who want to stop you, nothing is rigged in your favor, etc. I find some people get it when it's explained that way. <br /><br />One thing I disagree with though is your assertion that partial success or success at a cost are rare in OSR games. They're common; they're just not attached to the act of rolling dice like in storygames. Breaking down a door but making noise that prompts a random encounter check is success at a cost. Winning a battle but taking damage is success at a cost. Winning a battle but one enemy escapes to warn others about you is partial success. <br /><br />The difference is most noticeable in combat, where partial success doesn't happen on individual attacks, but more on the combat as a whole. But it is there, all the time. Captain Cavemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00122922869600744219noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202612634352350608.post-70679923233266653122020-06-09T17:01:21.848-07:002020-06-09T17:01:21.848-07:00Great post! Great post! shanepatrickwardhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09779728578574223142noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4202612634352350608.post-89283743615082025942020-06-09T16:54:12.845-07:002020-06-09T16:54:12.845-07:00Thoughtful series. Thanks.Thoughtful series. Thanks.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14322782126113868388noreply@blogger.com